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03-09-2006, 09:37 PM

Kyth said:<center><div class="QuotedForumText" style="width: 90%;text-align: left;"><hr>quote: I'm talking about how the guild chose to react to the actions, Jinkys -- that I *do* blame the guild for.

I don't blame DC for what one member has chosen to say in tells and public channels to multiple members of our guild. BUT -- if our response would've been to plaster it all over eqmac/dc.com, or even to be putting it up on our own forums, then I'd have blamed us -- yes. Taking it up with DC's officers or bringing it to Sony is the appropriate response -- not posting, not blaming all of DC, not namecalling.

That's what I'm talking about. We don't choose what others do to us, but we do choose how we react.

And I didn't miss the point that you have issues with 1-2 people who are in Temerity. I think blaming 1-2 people for everything, however, is quite wrong.

<hr></div></center> Let me start out by saying I agree wholeheartedly with the above posts' point.  The odd thing is that it seems very familiar.  In fact, I remember posting a very similar reply to someone who did in fact run to EQMac, someone in Temerity who was outraged.  Similar to how Claric feels now.  Wasn't right then, isnt right now to brand or label a guild with a single person or two's unethical or malicious behaviour. However, it almost drives some interest in me to see if this position was reinforced to Redleaf that we see here towards Claric. It would be nice to acknowledge that others get upset just like Claric,  reading Kyth's  post one would think think that Temerity members seem exempt from such outrageous behaviour.  Here is a flashback to jog your memory: * Temerity = The Uber Dark Conquest = Underachieving scrap eaters. Always have been, always will be. The End. * I don't want animosity between our guilds, but please post with lucidity.  It would help the cause to acknowledge that we ALL get mad, we ALL say things that hurt others and most of all, we ALL should learn from those experiences to improve our guild relations. Let the officers handle it and let's not post here with selective memory,  emotional tirades or other posts that aren't constructive in solving this problem.  Raden Fireslinger ~ Storm Warden Yeowza Silkmaster ~ Prophet Isios Dragonsong ~ Archon "I am ready to meet my Maker.  Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." Sir Winston Churchill

Nikolai · 03-09-2006, 09:42 PM

Mmmmmm. Tasty straw men, mmmmmmm.... <a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=820004">Nikolai Lianfyrr</a>, 
Khati Sha Feral Lord 
<SELECT name=NikSkills> <OPTION selected>Nik's Tradeskills:<OPTION>Grand Master Tailor (250)<OPTION>Grand Master Potter (250)<OPTION>Grand Master Brewer (250)<OPTION>Master Smith (238)<OPTION>Master Fletcher (207)<OPTION>Grand Master Fisher (200)<OPTION>Master Jeweler (200)<OPTION>Master Chef (200)</OPTION></SELECT>

Viva · 03-09-2006, 09:49 PM

WooleyBully said:<center><div class="QuotedForumText" style="width: 90%;text-align: left;"><hr>quote: Let the officers handle it and let's
not post here with selective memory,  emotional tirades or other
posts that aren't constructive in solving this problem.  <hr></div></center> 
 
Did you tell Claric this? 
 
Please remember that this entire thread started because of his "emotional tirade". <a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1189477"> Ms. Viva IceBear</a>
 
Good girls don't play rogues. 
Let us step out into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure.

Saenayil · 03-09-2006, 09:56 PM

claric_thecleric said:<center><div class="QuotedForumText" style="width: 90%;text-align: left;"><hr>quote: How would you feel if you were
me <hr></div></center>

I'd feel pretty stupid<img src="/forums/images/gpicons/face_wink.gif"> <A href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1027902"target=_blank>The King of Death, Saenayil Shadowraith </a>

03-09-2006, 10:09 PM

Viva said:<center><div class="QuotedForumText" style="width: 90%;text-align: left;"><hr>quote: WooleyBully said:<center><div class="QuotedForumText" style="width: 90%;text-align: left;"><hr>quote: Let the officers handle it and let's
not post here with selective memory,  emotional tirades or other
posts that aren't constructive in solving this problem.  <hr></div></center> 
 
Did you tell Claric this? 
 
Please remember that this entire thread started because of his "emotional tirade". <hr></div></center> I do remember and yes SpongeClar Squarepants has been talking to DC officers regarding this thread. I only posted in hopes that we would all begin to be rational and respectful to each other, no blanket comments about how great or horrible we are as a group.  I see Sae responded right away in a constructive, positive way.  = ( /sigh Raden Fireslinger ~ Storm Warden Yeowza Silkmaster ~ Prophet Isios Dragonsong ~ Archon "I am ready to meet my Maker.  Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." Sir Winston Churchill Edited by WooleyBully 3/9/2006 5:10 PM (Most Recent)

Saenayil · 03-09-2006, 10:31 PM

WooleyBully said:<center><div class="QuotedForumText" style="width: 90%;text-align: left;"><hr>quote: I see Sae responded right away in a constructive, positive way.  = ( /sigh <hr></div></center>

heh.. this whole thread is unconstructive. My comment is just quicker to read. <A href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1027902"target=_blank>The King of Death, Saenayil Shadowraith </a>

Kyth · 03-09-2006, 10:34 PM

Gotta agree with Nik here, Raden. Nice straw man. If you want to read into my post that Temerity is perfect, more power to you. But I've never said it. What I *did* say to Jinkys is that this and other mountains out of molehills, and the subsequently deciding a particular guild or person is responsible for all the brouhaha is not constructive nor is it helpful. There are avenues for complaints, and in fact they are being followed -- on both sides. I also said that we choose our own responses -- Temerity's actions cannot "make" DC respond in any way. Your response is your own responsibility. -- 
<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=881745">Kyth</a>, Officer of Temerity 
Random quote: (<a href="http://www.frivolity.com/eq/eqq/sq.cgi">Click here to view all quotes</a>) 
<img src="http://www.frivolity.com/eq/eqq/q.gif">

Viva · 03-09-2006, 10:42 PM

WooleyBully said:<center><div class="QuotedForumText" style="width: 90%;text-align: left;"><hr>quote: I do remember and yes SpongeClar Squarepants has been talking to DC officers regarding this thread. <hr></div></center> 
 
So, in essence, you're saying that by posting an "emotional tirade" on our public forums, Claric was "letting the officers handle it"? 
 
Because if that's what you're saying, your logic is also astounding. <a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1189477"> Ms. Viva IceBear</a>
 
Good girls don't play rogues. 
Let us step out into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure.

03-09-2006, 10:56 PM

Viva said:<center><div class="QuotedForumText" style="width: 90%;text-align: left;"><hr>quote: WooleyBully said:<center><div class="QuotedForumText" style="width: 90%;text-align: left;"><hr>quote: I do remember and yes SpongeClar Squarepants has been talking to DC officers regarding this thread. <hr></div></center> 
 
So, in essence, you're saying that by posting an "emotional tirade" on our public forums, Claric was "letting the officers handle it"? 
 
Because if that's what you're saying, your logic is also astounding. <hr></div></center> No, that is NOT what I am saying.  May I get a little credit please?  I always try to post in an unbiased, clear and concise method to draw attention to what I hope we all should work towards, not create more ingredients for friction. In fact, I am sorry for even posting here.  My posts will cease on this thread because my best laid effort to make things better only seems to aid the effort of fanning a fire. Raden Fireslinger ~ Storm Warden Yeowza Silkmaster ~ Prophet Isios Dragonsong ~ Archon "I am ready to meet my Maker.  Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter." Sir Winston Churchill

Redleaf · 03-09-2006, 11:05 PM

text-autospace:none"> text-autospace:none">"Temerity = The Uber<O:P></O:P>text-autospace:none">Dark Conquest = Underachieving scrap eaters.<O:P></O:P>text-autospace:none">Always have been, always will be."<O:P></O:P>It's just so pretty; I had to post it again so I could look at it. Redleaf

03-10-2006, 12:21 AM

Ok, here is the infamous posting copied directly from DC forums. No editing bullshit either:<DIV> </DIV><DIV>Quote:</DIV><DIV>The real problem is former DC toons who have login info of our "shared" DC owned toons. Along those lines, there is one DC member who certain persons in Temerity want to get her account banned. This isn't idle speculation, I heard this directly from Kyth. Temerity officers and guild policy have NOTHING to do with that. It's a personal problem between members of Tems and members of DC. Having access to DC /gu chat enables anyone in Tems with the DC toon login info to take screenshots of DC /gu converations, which I admit are pretty darn boring usually, but in theory could be a problem for this individual. It also allows members of Tems to read our Motd which used to include raiding times and targets allowing Tems to jump our targets if they so chose. And finally it may allow them DC forum access if the toons password is the same as their DC forums password.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Once an account pw has been changed the account owner should grant acces to that account back to any DC tagged toon who was using it before the change. The point is not to prevent DC members from using our shared toons. Also, if you think I'm being silly about this, feel free to ask Orage and Dev if they think Tems would be cool with them having login access to Tems tagged toons. Or better yet, ask Kyth or any other Tems officer. </DIV><DIV>End Quote</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>After my conversation with Kyth concerning a different issue, she mentioned Happy and I said I have known her for over 2 years. She asked me to have her tone it down as there were members in Tems who were fed up and wanted to get her account banned and she clearly told me Temerity officers had nothing to do with it. After that conversation I PMed Happy on the DC boards and begged her to stop harrassing Tems toons, even ones that she hates and I believe hate her just as much back. Happy is my friend and I want to protect her. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>One aspect of that is making sure her privacy within DC is respected. I have never posted a single darn thing saying so and so is spying. I said that the possiblity exists, therefore it seemed reasonable to me to have the login PW changed on toons that are guilded DC that former DC members now in Temerity had access to. I mean, if you hated Happy and were planning on getting her account banned and you had access to DC tagged toons who is to say that you would never use that access? I admit I'm protective of Happy, so shoot me.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>When I joined MAC and later when I joined DC, I was told I was not allowed any guilded toons in any other guild and I had to detag any and all alts. I do not know the rules within Temerity, but my assumption is that this is a pretty standard thing. That if a Temerity toon jumped to DC or Destiny or wherever that they would be required to detag their Temerty tagged alts. In that respect I believe having acces to a toon guilded in another guild is bascially the same as having an alt in another guild and that isn't allowed. I have NEVER said any officer in Tems had anything to do with getting Happy banned, in fact I believe Kyth was trying to calm things down and prevent that from happening. I am hoping to prevent that as well.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>The simple fact that Tems tagged toons retained access to DC tagged toons does allow them to read guild Motd. Personally, I think that is wrong. If I ever found out any DC tagged toon was spying on Tems I would actually warn them to get they damn Tems tagged alt detagged. If they didn't do it I would both demand that they be kicked out of DC and I'd come here and publically post their damn name so you all would know. If you know me you would know that I'm not gonna stand for that kinda shit. Apparently I also have to defend myself on another issue but I will stat a new thread for that.</DIV>

Kyth · 03-10-2006, 12:34 AM

Glimi44 said:<center><div class="QuotedForumText" style="width: 90%;text-align: left;"><hr>quote: Along those lines, there is one DC member who certain persons in Temerity want to get her account banned. This isn't idle speculation, I heard this directly from Kyth.<hr></div></center>

Right there, Glimi. That is *quite* the misrepresentation of the disussion we had, where I was asking you to please use whatever influence you had on "this person" so that it would be resolved without getting reported to Sony (after you volunteered that you two were very good friends.)

I would say that saying we're trying to get her account banned is indeed idle speculation, since I told you the opposite but said I was worried it'd happen if things didn't change particularly given the public channels that were involved, and a big violation of the trust I put in you to try to resolve this without needless public drama (since going through the DC officers 3x by then hadn't produced any changes in behavior.)

<center><div class="QuotedForumText" style="width: 90%;text-align: left;"><hr>quote: Having access to DC /gu chat enables anyone in Tems with the DC toon login info to take screenshots of DC /gu converations, which I admit are pretty darn boring usually, but in theory could be a problem for this individual<hr></div></center>

And there's the bit that explains the PM I got saying that we were using DC's /gu to get screenshots of this person. Rather than the far more simple solution of just, you know, reading /ooc and tells.... None of us give a damn what you say in /gu, we don't have to read it. It's when someone is swearing and calling names in public channels, or sending people vicious tells that it becomes our problem.

 

This target stuff is a riot. You guys *do* realize we know the spawn times too and know how to use trackers also, right? And we know how to use /who.

Why are you so utterly convinced we must be having seekrit access to your raid schedules to know that since cursed spawned and you're all in Ssra that you're probably trying to assemble force for it.

For the last time: it's far far far more effort to sneak around convincing people in DC to give us their logins just to read your motd to find out that cursed is spawning that day than it is for us to simply log in a tracker. -- 
<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=881745">Kyth</a>, Officer of Temerity 
Random quote: (<a href="http://www.frivolity.com/eq/eqq/sq.cgi">Click here to view all quotes</a>) 
<img src="http://www.frivolity.com/eq/eqq/q.gif"> Edited by Kyth 3/9/2006 7:42 PM (Most Recent)

03-10-2006, 01:13 AM

Sigh, it's a known fact that former members of DC now in Tems had login access to DC tagged toons until the PWs were changed this week. It is also NOT a misrepresentaton of what you said. You gave me a warning and I tried to influence Happy to stop it and I also took it upon myself to make sure those former DC members would no longer have access to currently tagged DC toons. I was hoping that would help protect her from herself as well. The fact that you also told me you had talked to DC officers about it indicated to me that it was not private, a lot of others already knew about it and were apparently not influencing her. Your own admission above confirms this.<DIV> </DIV><DIV>I would especially like an answer to the last statements in my quoted posting. Would Temerity officers be cool with it if they found out Glimi had login access to say Deerslayer? Would Temerity officers and members be glad about that? </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV> I NEVER once said a DC toon was logged in by a now Tems-tagged toon to do mischief. I clearly stated that the possiblity exists. I cannot believe that you are not aware of the feelings some members of Tems have toward Happy. I am sure you are aware of Happy's feelings toward them. Happy needs to keep her mouth shut and move on and get over it. I have begged her to stop. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>As far as reading the Motd, etc. what those former members of DC do with anything they see or hear, no one has control over except themselves. They can do nothing with it or talk to others in their guild about it or whatever. I seriously doubt Tems is gonna completely rearrange their raiding schedule over it but the possibility does exist for switcing the order of planned mobs on any given day, And I believe I have defended that very point publically on EQMac forums, that Tems by and large isn't doing anything the rest of us don't do ie memorizing spawn cycles and kills and looking /w all guild to see where others are assembling, etc. Those comments were pointing out the mischief of Tems-tagged toons, who used to be in DC, shaving alts in DC could cause. Again please answer this question, "Would you be happy with it if Deerslayer gave me his login info?"</DIV>

Kyth · 03-10-2006, 01:24 AM

If you can't see the difference between saying that I'm tryiing to get someone banned, and saying that we're NOT trying to get someone banned, damn I really don't know what to tell you. There's nothing to "admit" to. The harassment was repeated and public. I submited three formal complaints because, in bold this time so you don't miss it, I did not want to see her account banned if the behaviors continued and got reported. When you mentioned she was your friend, I asked you to talk to her because I was worried, as it was continuing, that it would get reported and her account would be banned. Please note the distinct lack of the phrase "I'm hoping to get her account banned" or its close friend "I'm tryiing to get her account banned." Glimi, umm, DC *does* have access to a Tem-tagged char. Ok? And has for a long time. With a rumor of more than one DC member logging into it. With repeated rumors over the last few years of it occasionally being used inappropriately (although not by the primary DC user of the account.) Is it technically against the guild rules? Yup. Is it a special unique situation? Yup. Do we let it pass because they are insisting nothing wrong is happening? Yup. Only time we pushed it was when the Tem person hadn't been playing for a very very long time and was showing no signs of coming back, and the account was getting logged in a lot. We'd rather have this person a member than not, and it (it = the DC member having access) is not a negotiable point with them, so such is the situation. And hell, it's far more fun to pretend that people are trustworthy by default rather than vice versa. I deleted that comment from my original post, as I didn't want to cause any problems, but since you're pushing it.... -- 
<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=881745">Kyth</a>, Officer of Temerity 
Random quote: (<a href="http://www.frivolity.com/eq/eqq/sq.cgi">Click here to view all quotes</a>) 
<img src="http://www.frivolity.com/eq/eqq/q.gif">

03-10-2006, 01:27 AM

Then quite simply you should either detag the toon or have them change the password.