Login

Zinovia · 03-10-2006, 01:44 PM

Walk a mile in their shoes Placer? Been there, done that. Before you criticize someone, first walk a mile in their shoes. Then when you criticze them, you're a mile away from them; and you have their shoes! Just FYI I was in Dark Conquest for 11 months. I've been in Temerity for a bit over a year. When I detagged from DC, I detagged every single one of my characters all at once, so no "moles or traitors" here.
 
So why can't we all just get along and be one big happy family? There are many reasons just "raiding together" won't work as far as I see it, even leaving aside the ongoing animosity we see cropping up from time to time. 
<ul>
<li>Members of both guilds have spent hundreds, if not thousands, of hours raiding with their guilds. We know what to expect from each other, we have certain ways we approach things, and we base our reactions on what we expect the other players to be doing. All guilds work slightly differently and have different conventions on who to assist, where kill calls, mezz calls, heals, and other raid coordination take place. </li>
<li>Dark Conquest and Temerity have very different policies on how raid loot is awarded, and who is eligible to receive it. Dark Conquest has stated that all members of the raid are eligible for loot, regardless of who is playing the character, or if it's someone's only, second, or fifth character. "It is wrong to discriminate against a character based on arbitrary labels such as 'main' or 'alt'" (that's paraphrased, as I don't have the precise quote in front of me). Temerity has a very strict policy saying that main characters *always* come before alts, even if you can log both of them in at once and bring both to raids. Furthermore in Tem the loot is awarded by the officers. In DC it's done by a revolving loot council (unless that system has changed in the past year). These differences go deep, and it's part of why I left DC. </li>
<li>Speaking of 2-boxing, DC allows and encourages people to play 2 characters on raids. Temerity does not, and officers only do so on rare occasions, or for people to get keyed if they can't attend a particular raid. </li>
<li>Who would lead these joint raids? How do we decide? Which guild's policy and raid standards do we follow? Do we all have to give our raid sub-channel passwords to each other? Do we need to change our hotkeys for heals, assist calls, split tank calls, mezz calls? </li>
</ul>
The logistics of such a thing are mind-boggling. That is also leaving aside the issue of how it will benefit Temerity. At the moment we are still progressing, and have yet to encounter anywhere in the game where just throwing another 30 people who aren't used to our raiding style will help us. 
Regarding other issues, if I see anyone totally and egregiously violating the SoE play nice policy, you can bet that I will /report them. I don't care who they are, and it's not a personal vendetta. If someone is so out of control that they are flagrantly breaking the rules on a repeated basis, then they *deserve* to be banned. 
claric_thecleric wrote <center><div class="QuotedForumText" style="width: 90%;text-align: left;"><hr>quote: i am not posted cause i hate tem. i just think some of you need to can the maliscuousness toward DC. OWN Up and stop it.<hr></div></center> 
ROFL. You could have fooled me. You don't see *our* members openly insulting your guild in public channels in game. heh. 
Claric wrote:
<center><div class="QuotedForumText" style="width: 90%;text-align: left;"><hr>quote: until DC gets to the point where they can attempt a emperor Kill. i am done playing everquest. Not because i dont enjoy it. But because there just isnt anything to do right now that i am interested in. <hr></div></center> 
Nice way to help the guild progress faster. Hmm, guess I should show up for only Emperor kills and 2nd floor VT since I've done all the rest of it many times before, and those are the only mobs I can really get gear upgrades on. Take a break from EQ Claric. It's the most sensible thing you've said to date. We all get caught up in the game from time to time. <a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1187528">Socratus Wittgenstein</a> - Dwarf Archon 
<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1021915">Zinovia AnkleBiter</a> - Gnome Coercer 
<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1199198">Zivra Nomokei</a> - Iksar Beastlord 
Calligrapher, Cook, Crocheter of Afghans, Illuminator, Jeweler, Seamstress, Weaver (and my characters have some tradeskills too)

03-10-2006, 02:06 PM

Ok, Mangroas, I'm out on this subject too. The Cursed things was new to me tonight as I just heard about it today /tell from a DC officer in reference to Kyth's posting. I didn't start this thread Claric did. I posted here what I posted on DC forums only becasue my name was brought up and I wanted the information to be accurately presented and not paraphrased or interpreted by whoever PMed Ktyh in reference to my posting in DC forums. Until tonight I had never posted anything on Temerity's public forums and honestly I never woulda bothered if my name hadn't been dragged into it. The Cursed posting I apologize for. But to me, just hearing an accusation that I know isn't true for the first time while I was currently writing a posting here--well--I couldn't stopfrom trying to defend myself. So I am out on both subjects. I'd rather play than post anyways.

03-10-2006, 03:33 PM

I would like to clarify 2 points if I may and perhaps elaborate on one at the same time. Nothing in the walk a mile saying we all have heard is anything but sage advice.  It may be cliche and people are entitled to whatever opinon of me they like but that doesn't chage it's relevance one bit. As to Kyth's comment on raiding.  I'm not suggesting a single guild, server raid policy.  I am only suggesting that there are times and places, regardless of obstacles such as logistics, where we can all benefit from a chance to work together on a larger scale.  We have probably all made the observation at some point (maybe on forums or maybe not) that we enjoy playing with so and so or how they seem like a much different person once you get the chance to play with them.  It stands to reason merging the raids could do the same.  To expand on how the raid would work.  You know what I don't know.  Will it be hard?  In some respects yes but in others maybe not the way people fear.  We should not let any of that get in the way of trying.  I would suggest this, as I have in other discussions, we don't look at this as being a particular guild(s) policies.  When it's a more global raid we have a similar understanding of the needs and try to stop affiliations at the door.  These raids could help with people's progression and I believe there are many ways that we could get that to work but that should be a secondary priority (at best). Placer P.S.  If you don't think you could always learn more, have you learned anything at all?

Mangroas · 03-10-2006, 03:35 PM

Pfft. Admit it. You just want to leach off of more people to get more loot. I am! Now twink me, people. 
<a href='http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1256880'>Lich Mangroas AnkleBiter the Courageous</a>

Kyth · 03-10-2006, 04:21 PM

Placer your post is very confusing.

Are you talking individual one-off pickup raids, epic raids, shawl crawls, CR's, ring wars, etc? If so Tem already does those openly, and you have nothing to complain about here.

Are you talking about actual raids together? You say you aren't, but then you talk about merging raid forces. If you are, then I must disagree that this is by definition a good thing.

<center><div class="QuotedForumText" style="width: 90%;text-align: left;"><hr>quote: we can all benefit from a chance to work together on a larger scale.<hr></div></center>

I do not feel that we "help" people or benefit them when we take a guild that hasn't killed Trak off to do Avatar of War.

What "progression" is there if a guild gets all their gear as your handmedowns from much higher tier raids? That's not progression, it's a form of PL'ing. And may also have side effects such as removing the incentives to raid on their own because they not only cannot get upgrades from the lower mobs, but they are far harder with just their force than if they have the tank from UberGuild001 tanking for them. Why spend their X days a week raiding this "older" content when they could be doing new and exciting things?

Progression is something a guild does -- having people tag along with a further-progressed guild is nothing other than PL'ing on the guild/raid level.

When I want to help someone level, I log on an appropriately-levelled alt.

Same thing with raids.

There may be a guild out there who is interested -- in which case DC has made it clear they are interested too. More power to you. But please don't keep harranguing at Tem to agree with you -- we have a different philosophy and idea of how to help people.

 

And this comes right back, again, to what I said before: why do I have to agree with you in order to be interested in having friendly relations? Why is it so "wrong" for me to think that progression should be handled via alliances amongst similarly-tiered guilds, or on your own, rather than raid PL'ing? Why can't I still be interested in helping and working together?

I'm not against this because it would be "hard" or I'm afraid of it.

This is the problem with your post here and Claric's posts on eqmac a while ago: you aren't even questioning whether raid PL'ing is a good idea, you take it as assumed that it's good, and then can't figure out why other people won't agree with you and won't talk about how to make it happen.

 

You and DC clearly think that it's ok. No problem, more power to you, Temerity is not in any way stopping you from doing it, so why be yelling at us about it? Just do what you want to do and we'll see how it shakes out in the end.

Am I wrong? Maybe. Are you wrong? Maybe. Is this more likely a personal decision that each guild has to make, whether they progress at their own pace or get the equivalent of a guild-level raid PL? Very definitely; both achieve different things and have different downsides.

 

If you're talking about helping *Temerity*'s progression, then thanks for the concern but we're doing okay for now. Whether we'll make it past the EP's I don't know, but I'm having an absolute blast beating this content with our raid force, and it would be a huge, huge step backwards to add 20-30 raiders who have never raided with us (and perhaps never seen most raid bosses in the game) into these raids.

Some day, perhaps. For now, I enjoy the luxury of a raid force that knows what to do most of the time without anyone telling them. We have the force to keep doing things on our own, and with being so close to SolRo and the EP's, I don't want to take the 3-4 month detour to switch to a raiding alliance style, gear up another guild, teach them how to raid with us, etc. (Yes we have experience with what this takes, from when we got a lot of SoN folks at once.) -- 
<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=881745">Kyth</a>, Officer of Temerity 
Random quote: (<a href="http://www.frivolity.com/eq/eqq/sq.cgi">Click here to view all quotes</a>) 
<img src="http://www.frivolity.com/eq/eqq/q.gif">

Graczeen · 03-10-2006, 04:23 PM

This page claimed in the name of wizardry and, uh, clericry.

Kyth · 03-10-2006, 04:26 PM

I think Aary is looking for you Adz. Something about a barbecue? -- 
<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=881745">Kyth</a>, Officer of Temerity 
Random quote: (<a href="http://www.frivolity.com/eq/eqq/sq.cgi">Click here to view all quotes</a>) 
<img src="http://www.frivolity.com/eq/eqq/q.gif">

Lore · 03-10-2006, 05:35 PM

How in the hell did my name or Karpan's name get dragged into this?!?!?! Furthermore WTF does it matter. Seriously people, you make me just want to give up my account. <a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=856172">Lore Item</a>
 
<quote>Saying Windows is equal to Macintosh is like finding a potato that looks like Jesus and believing youve witnessed the second coming - Guy Kawasaki, 1995</quote>

Bajjo · 03-10-2006, 06:33 PM

I just want you to give up something else!<img src="/forums/images/gpicons/face_happy.gif">

Roneb · 03-10-2006, 06:39 PM

/em shudders at the thought of a world with no Everquest for mac Roneb - 65 Warrior (no longer counting)
Magelo- <A href="javascript:view_profile(911401);">http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=911401</A>

Living is easy with eyes closed

03-10-2006, 10:08 PM

Bajjo said:<center><div class="QuotedForumText" style="width: 90%;text-align: left;"><hr>quote: I just want you to give up something else!<img src="/forums/images/gpicons/face_happy.gif"> 
<hr></div></center> <div> </div><div>LOL Bajjo.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Uh....ditto </div>

Shylah · 03-11-2006, 11:12 AM

For a moment there, I thought I was reading Brellrants.net.<DIV> </DIV><DIV>/frown</DIV>

03-11-2006, 05:19 PM

over and over i have heard DC drop  your tags and join temerity...Wow 
I say the good people left in temerity should drop their tags and join
dark conquest.  How could anyone want to be around such shit heads. 
 
. 
You guys dig your own grave with the server.  It is you who think
because your progression surpasses ours that you can be the assholes of
the earth. 
You guys have zero diplomacy.  You turn everything into a flamewar
with no solutions.  I posted on eqmac, because i would set my tag
aside to cooperate with the guilds on this server.  The few of you
that think your gods gift to al kabor shot everything i said down and
then some.  Then i posted here about my toon being used in a
maliscious way against Dark Conquest and happy.  
rude response in 3..2..1..redleaf 
rude response in 3...2..1. utdaan 
recruiting policies, jibberish, quotes in 3..2..1.. kyth 
rude response in 3..2..1. someone not involved. 
you guys see how much arrogance you radiate and what a sespool you have become? 
 
a few bad apples spoils the whole lot and i am sad to say your guild stinks of it. 
Basically if happy joined temerity she would have a free reign to be an
asshole from what i can see.  being in temerity is above the law
of diplomacy.  Why DC would ever want to work with you boggles
me.  
i can't get over how many times i have heard one of you say Stealing
DC's 'l33t strategies"  to our raid strategies, you have killed
everything we have killed.  why would you antagonize us like
that?  Why wouldn't you play the position of power in a positive
way.  instead your attitude as a unit is unbearable. 
is the mean age of a temerity member 14? 
if you think al kabor isn't standing on its last leg than you are that absorbed into your toon.  
who cares if dc is 8 months behind you, we sure don't.  In fact,
if Dc merged with a guild the size of SoN by fricking god i hope we
would be doing as well as you.  i mean SoN was the size if not
bigger than dc at that time.  Don't give temerity so much
credit/  The name temerity consists of so little (actual) temerity
and more ex dc-destiny-son-horde than anything.  So to act like
your leet strategies take time to teach, give me a break.  Your
learning with new people from smaller raiding guilds all the
time.  Stop giving "temerity' so much credit.   More so
its the smaller guilds of this server that deserve the credit of
cultivation.  
granted i have heard your raids are excellent and very organized. 
But it is a video game.  Anyone that is a gamer can learn that
stuff in 1 whole raid.  Please your standa gainst cooperation as
if people couldnt hack it is hanis.  I am sure i have raided as
much or more than most current temerity raiders.  Just because i
havnt seen VT raid targets doesnt mean squat.  Check the
pattern.  DC has addapted from Rhag1 to cursed tier 7. 
Raiding new targets is all about learning the scenarios.  How many
times did you wipe before you killed emp as temerity?  your
telling me that wiping as a server wouldnt be the same process? 
ok.  
i forcast 5 more pages.;) Edited by claric_thecleric 3/11/2006 12:21 PM (Most Recent)

Saenayil · 03-11-2006, 05:40 PM

I thought you quit, Claric? Can someone really be as stupid and illiterate as you? Every other sentence you say is a contradiction. Every post you make contradicts the last. You are absolutely retarded and I can't believe I ever liked you. Look who's acting high and mighty right now. You post here that you don't want to cause drama yet that is exactly what you are doing. Now stop being so stupid, seriously. If you think the average age in temerity is 14 then all I can say is at least 14 year olds type with more accuracy and better grammar than you. You probably bring Dark Conquests average age way down. I like a lot of people in DC, I'm friends with a lot of them. You are trying to turn this into a guild war. Really, Claric, all we really want is to see YOU go away, and maybe a select few others from DC to stop talking trash.

As to the Temerity name: I think it deserves all the credit for where we are right now. The people who lead the guild started it and their rules and guidance have brought us to where we are now. Our leaders know how to progress, which target is next in line, and how our force can handle it. We all work hard to become an efficient raiding force, which is why together, as Temerity, we have conquered so much. 

Claric -- STFU and quit. <A href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1027902"target=_blank>The King of Death, Saenayil Shadowraith </a>

Spinja · 03-11-2006, 06:04 PM

i didnt read the bulk of this, nor will i , i just wanted to make a
laame attmept to de rail this thread and possibly end the drama even
though i dont play anymore........................ 
 
* Spinja throws his animal cracker at lore 
 
KARPAN LORE STOLE MY ANIMAL CRACKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
 
 
i need a nap Spinjas says: Mobs Dont kill people, chanters with mobs kill people.

((charm breaks)))

Spinjas says : Yeah ok ouch!!

<a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=989018> This Is Spin-Bots Gear</a>